I simply love playing the Devil's Advocate

The devil needs an advocate ?   

Maybe I'm just God's little hellraiser.

A son of thunder ?   


Aeryck.

How does someone PROVE their Christianity to you and why should they have to?

How can you hide the Spirit of GOD within ?  

Aeyrck.

I'm just one for putting things into perspective.

Xmas is ALL about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ MONEY.................!
Convincing Christians that it is all about Jesus is just another way of getting all the religious folks to spend, spend, spend, spend.....

If anything it should be called 'Mammonday' .... where we sacrifice our bonuses on the alter of bigger and better presents every year.

I think Christians should celebrate a far more important day and just call it 'Maranatha Day'  

Aeryck.

So, why do Christians so willing celebrate a false day with pagan traditions?

There's really not a lot of Christ in Christmas to begin with. Actually, none at all besides the Catholic Church, in 1038AD, officially declaring that Jesus was born on December 25.

Maybe they do it to make the candles on the tree burn a little brighter....?   

Religion has always had a major power shortage, part of the reason why it gets its kicks on Route 66...   

Humbug...Humbug...(hehehe)
Aeryck.

Please refrain from referring to me (and my Husband) in your articles and comments.

'There would be no eXperiments. No Thomas Edison. No Bill Nye the Science Guy. What if there were no eXperimentation of thoughts or ideas, either I would think like ‘Little Whip’ or she would think like me! Worse than this we would all think like Aeryck? eek…… Imagine a world where we were forbidden to consider and eXperience new and different thoughts, or even the liberty to voice them, jU would not be what it is today?'

"_ _" , I think if you learnt to handle a fraction of what you spew forth on a regular basis, you might find you are able to handle a little 'tit for tat'. (I can only dream.)

'We could never have eXtras. No eXtra ice cream (no pun intended your majesty) and pie.'

Well, you know how sensitive " _ _ _ _ " gets

I've no wish to converse with you.

Then why do you read his threads. Just ignore Hamartano's comments and he will eventually stop teasing you.

Come Hamartano, enough is enough. You know that " _ _ " thought she had stolen " _ _ _ _ " from Jesus,(John 10:29) and " _ _ _ _ " mistook the Christian experience for a sample of the Good Word. (Heb. 6:4-6)

Aeryck.

I would like to wish you all ’both friends and foes’ a very Merry Christmas.

A little bit early and even though it was started by the RCC and is based on a pagan celebration, we aught to remember that every day belongs to G_d anyhooooooooooooooooooot.

Peace,
Aeryck.

I guess that I can now respond since little whip has responded. I have been waiting for her all along… She held out much longer than I anticipated but I must admit, she is very strong willed. I like that about her, if only we could put it towards the Lord's cause.

“The X in Xmas is not meant to be disrespectful. The Greek word for Christ was Xristos. That is the origin of the X, an abbreviation of Xristos not a way to take the Christ out of Christmas, really.”

I would like to start with locomama‘s comments. First off let me thank you for being the first to post. I am sorry if I mislead any one, it really is not about the “X” or disrespect of using the “X” in XMAS.

There is a spirit that Aeryck alluded to in his post “the spirit of anti-christ” and this spirit is headstrong on removing any and every acknowledgement of Christ from the forefront. We see this spirit was evident when Herod sent the wise men to find and bring him news of where the Savior was located after His birth. Herod wanted to also go a worship Him…. NOT! It is a violent and vicious spirit that desires nothing more than to totally remove Christ from His place of preeminence.

In all honesty this thread was an attempt to prove two things.

1.)That this spirit does exist.
2.)And given the opportunity, it will manifest itself.

~zoo is correct. We do not know the actual date and seasons on the Lord Jesus birth.

Is it because He had no beginning, He simply became a man that He might die for His creation?

It might be that He knew vain religion would take such a date, rape and pillage it with the works of the flesh? Maybe it is that our god is our belly?


“I think the main reason why celebrating a birthday for God Almighty is difficult for some, is because of the spirit of the anti-Christ which will not confesss that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.”

I think my dear brother and student of the word, Aeryck has hit the nail squarely on its head. It is NOT about spending time with family and friends, the giving of presents, or even about the Holiday… it is about the Christ. When Herod sought to kill the babies throughout all of Rama ….there was a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping [for] her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not. It was not about any of the children but one, Jesus of Nazareth, Yeshua ha Massiach. This anti-christ spirit manifest itself in the Garden of Eden and has flourished down through the ages. Locomama, the anti-spirit is alive and well today. It is posting on this thread.

“To learn of it, read St. Luke's Gospel. 1:26-38; 2:1-20. It's good to us who hear it because it's a true story.”

Thanks Lulapilgrim for the link to the blessed story of Christ birth….. And true it is. That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow of things in heaven and things on earth. God hath highly exalted Him and given Him a name that is above every other name. For no other name is given under heaven and earth whereby we may be saved. Immanuel- ‘God with us’ This anti-christ spirit will not bow their will to the will of God. It will not confess that it is dead in trespasses and sin. It rebels against God and His word.

“Christmas is a time of wonder and awe...it's the coming of God.”

My only question lula…. Isn’t Christmas more than a season. A season only comes once a year, Christmas occurs every time Christ is born anew in the sinners heart. Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven. The anti-christ spirit laughs at such truth. It is foolishness to him/her.

Therefore my dear friends statement…

“Christ is the reason”

…. Is most apropos. No matter the season, Jesus is the reason. He is the Light and the Life of men. But we must not forget the anti-christ spirit is alive and well.

“Xmas is ALL about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ MONEY.................! Convincing Christians that it is all about Jesus is just another way of getting all the religious folks to spend, spend, spend, spend.....If anything it should be called 'Mammonday' .... where we sacrifice our bonuses on the alter of bigger and better presents every year.

I used to think this until I met a widow woman in the Lord and I saw her live Christmas everyday 365... Christ in her the hope of glory. The Spirit of Christmas was evident every time I saw her. Every time I talked to her. The Spirit of Christmas had taken up His abode in her and was living the word in and through her life. The word had been made flesh and dwelt among us and we saw it in her life. Christ was born in her heart many years ago and she never ceased to bring her sacrifice of praise before him. Daily she would bring her gold, frankincense and myrrh to Him. Christ in her, the hope of glory!

“How can you hide the Spirit of GOD within ?”

I don’t see how one can brother…….. she couldn’t

“Come Hamartano, enough is enough. You know that " _ _ " thought she had stolen " _ _ _ _ " from Jesus,(John 10:29) and " _ _ _ _ " mistook the Christian experience for a sample of the Good Word. (Heb. 6:4-6)”
.A. I can’t not let it go. Eternity is at stake…. There is a way that seemeth right unto a man/woman and the way thereof is the way of death. To have the answer and keep ones mouth shut is to have the rain and withhold it from the parched earth. Everything just withers away. And all flesh is as grass.

“The reason I "come down" on Christianity all the time is because I simply love playing the Devil's Advocate...and sometimes all this religion gets out of hand and I think people need to have a bit more perspective about things.Maybe I'm just God's little hellraiser.”

Could be the anti-christ spirit that we have been waiting on?

“Without the presupposed truth value of such axiomatic principles as the law of causality, the law of non-contradition and the basic reliability of sense perception, this conversation would not even be possible.”
Or maybe this is it?

If you read this thread, you will see it.

Hamartano

Heh, you wish. I have no such ambitions as to rule the world.

~Zoo

Zoo posts:

Aeryck posts:

Christmas is definitely Catholic (not based on anything pagan) in name and origin.

The name of the origin in English is Christes Maesse, meaning Christ Mass. From Apostolic times and during the first centuries, in the Church, the suffix 'mas' is preceded by the name for which the Sacrifice of the Altar is offered to Almighty God. The feast of Feb. 2, at which the candles are blest is Candlemas; the feast of the Holy Innocents (Dec. 28) is Childermas, and the feast of the Nativity of our Lord (Dec. 25) was/is called Christmas.

Your link Zoo is incorrect. The date of the nativity of Christ was celebrated on Dec. 25 by the Catholic Chruch first in 300 AD and about the middle of the 4th century the Pope introduced a three Mass celebration in honor of the glorious day. One of the Masses was celebrated at the first cock crowing, midnight, to commemorate the eternal birth of the Word of God, amid the magnificance of His Father's glory. The 2nd Mass at dawn, was in celebration of Christ's appearance in the humility of the flesh. The 3rd Mass in daylight, was to symbolize His Second Coming on the day of Judgment to judge the living and the dead.

So deeply has the Catholic feast been imbedded into the life of all peoples that attempts to substitute the name Christ-tide failed as did the Puritan attempt to abolish Christmas by law and persecution.

Christmas was banned in England for 11 years by Act of Parliament 1659 during the ascendency of Cromwell and his Puritan party. In New England, Christmas was banned for 22 years by the Great and General Court of Massachusetts (the legislature). Cotton Mather and other leaders among the Pilgrims pronounced as blashpemy the keeping of the Holy Days for they hated all things Catholic.

On account of Puritanic hatred of Catholicism, thanksgiving was made a prominent holiday. Carols were tabooed such as "God rest ye little children, let nothing you affright, For Jesus Christ your Savior was born this happy night, Along the hills of Galilee the whitle flocks sleeping lay, When Christ, the Child of Nazareth, was born on Christmas day."

All the innocent joys were attacked by the enemies of the great Christian feast of the year merely becasue they were of Catholic origin. Cromwell and his Puritans in England and on this side of the Atlantic are no more. ON the other hand, the Catholic Chruch and her holy feast of Christmas which they hated continues to flourish and do honor to the Babe of Bethlehem on December 25th of each year. While Christmas is no longer banned in England or here in the USA, it suffers offenses as have been mentioned here, through modern paganistic and commercializing practices, that are as objectionable as the attempts to legislate it out of existence.





In the Church, Christmas is a Holy Day, not a holiday as Charles Dickens' Tiny Tims and thousands of Scrooges have transformed it.

Yes, Christmas is more than a season. I agree that Christ comes to us when we are "born anew". For Catholics, being born anew is receiving the free gift of God's sanctifying grace at our Baptism. Christ also comes to us at Holy Communion when we receive Christ's Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. For Catholics, Christ-mas is ongoing throughout the world 24/7 and 365 and has been since Christ instituted the Holy Mass at the Last Supper.

That Christmas is more than a season is what I meant when I wrote:

Me too. I notice not even Harmartano addressed the pagan issue.

As a non-Christian, I still celebrate Xmas not out of some averted religiousness but because I believe in the spirit of the holiday. I believe it is a time to share with family and friends. The emphasis placed on giving gifts and the commercialism of the day is not surprising, given the world we live in.

No, it's just that the information is hardly unknown.

I love ya, man, but you're beating a tired drum on that one...lol!

Yeah, it's good for that.



Eh, but someone's got to play it from time to time. Otherwise it'll feel sad and lonely and we don't want even a drum feeling that way on Christmas.

~Zoo

Me too. I notice not even Harmartano addressed the pagan issue.

Sorry dynamaso, I did not see that it was necessary for me to address the pagan aspect of the celebration. There is so much in society that has been flavoured with pagan tradition, it would be virtually impossible to escape unless as Paul writing to the Corinthian church state, "for then must ye needs go out of the world".

There are probably some participants on other forums who would say to Christians.... why do you post with the non-Christian unbelievers on jU? Why not post on Christian forums where we all agree? They might in fact dynamaso hang their doctrine on what they understand the Apostle Paul wrote to the believers in Corinth........

" I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world."

If one continues to study out the text there in Corinthians they will find it is not the dynamaso's (non-Christians) that are being admonished against but the hamartano's....

"but now have I written unto you not to keep company if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or and idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or a n extortioner: with such an one no not to eat."

My point is dynamaso is that life and the things that we interact with on a daily basis are full of pagan and non-Christian beliefs and origins. To completely escape them "one must need go out of the world"; but God's word has given ample direction for the believer in this walk. Oft times it is not clear to all who look from without, but what must have clarity is what are the convictions of the believer based upon the Word of God, not the preacher, not the Sunday school teacher or our discussion on jU.

"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's." Romans 14:5-8

I heard a preacher say one time that it is wrong to put up a Christmas Tree. He based his doctrine on the text found in Jeremiah 10-

"Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."

I am of the opinion that the text in Jeremiah is not referring to the Christmas tree, although it could be something of equal spiritual import. The trees that were mentioned in Jeremiah were idols of worship (pagan if you please). The Christmas tree can be of the same sort, but not of necessity, for Jeremiah went on to say "Forasmuch as [there is] none like unto thee, O LORD; thou [art] great, and thy name [is] great in might."

You see dynamaso, pagan traditions are trumped when one places God and His greatness above the tradition. The tree has no pagan origin it was created by God, only what was done with it. Could it be that Christmas is the same? To him that esteemeth something is wrong... it is wrong. If our heart condemns us, He is greater than our heart. This may not mean a lot to you dynamaso as it is truths from God's word, but for the believer that understands what God is instructing in His word. It is power of conviction.

As a non-Christian, I still celebrate Xmas not out of some averted religiousness but because I believe in the spirit of the holiday. I believe it is a time to share with family and friends.

As I do my friend, only as a Christian. With regard to the commercialism, that is truly the sad part for we have convinced our society that Christmas can not be celebrated without money, and that is not so.

hamartano

 

Sorry, meant fall.

John 1:14 suggests that he was born during the Feast of Tabernacles (late Sept, early Oct.)
Luke 2:22 says that shepherds were in the field keeping watch over the flock by night (which they would have brought the flock in to shelter during that cold month).

So, you even know that December 25th is not his Birthday, so why do you still celebrate it as such?  Do you put up a "Christmas" tree?

Sorry, but you are just wanting to believe this.  Under the direction of Constantine, in 320 AD was when the church accepted Dec. 25th as the official date to celebrate the nativity- which just happened to be at the same time that the Catholic church was trying to convert Pagans who celebrate Saturnalia (which ended on Sol Invictus (Invincible Sun), and more precisely, the birth of of Mithra on December 25th.  This celebration first appeared on the Julian Calendar in 46 BC.

Let's look at the celebration of Saturnalia:
-Gift giving to rejoice the birth if Mithra
-lights to ward off evil spirits
-celebrate with festive meals
-Decorate evergreens to celebrate the eternal life of the Sol Invictus

There are many other things that they used evergreens for in the Solstice celebrations, but there is no need to go in to details here since the info is so readily available.